russia in 1919(1919的俄国)-第15章
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telegrams emphasizing the terms of the decree。 In cases where the
taxation had been carried out as intended there had been no difficulty。
The most significant reason for the partial unsuccess was that the
propertied class； as such； had already diminished to a greater extent than
had been supposed； and many of those taxed； for example； as factory
owners were already working； not as factory owners； but as paid directors
in nationalized factories； and were therefore no longer subject to the tax。
In other words； the partial failure of the tax was a proof of the successful
development of the revolution。 （This is illustrated by the concrete case of
〃Uncle〃 recorded on p。 73。） Krestinsky believed that the revolution had
gone so far that no further tax of ； this kind would be either possible or
necessary。
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NOTES OF CONVERSATIONS
WITH LENIN
Whatever else they may think of him； not even his enemies deny that
Vladimir Ilyitch Oulianov （Lenin） is one of the greatest personalities of
his time。 I therefore make no apology for writing down such scraps of
his conversation as seem to illustrate his manner of mind。
He was talking of the lack of thinkers in the English labour
movement； and said he remembered hearing Shaw speak at some meeting。
Shaw； he said； was 〃A good man fallen among Fabians〃 and a great deal
further left than his company。 He had not heard of 〃The Perfect
Wagnerite；〃 but was interested when I told him the general idea of the
book； and turned fiercely on an interrupter who said that Shaw was a
clown。 〃He may be a clown for the bourgeoisie in a bourgeois state； but
they would not think him a clown in a revolution。〃
He asked whether Sidney Webb was consciously working in the
interests of the capitalists； and when I said I was quite sure that he was not；
he said； 〃Then he has more industry than brains。 He certainly has great
knowledge。〃
He was entirely convinced that England was on the eve of revolution；
and pooh…poohed my objections。 〃Three months ago I thought it would
end in all the world having to fight the centre of reaction in England。 But
I do not think so now。 Things have gone further there than in France； if
the news as to the extent of the strikes is true。〃
I pointed out some of the circumstances； geographical and
economical； which would make the success of a violent revolution in
England problematical in the extreme； and put to him the same suggestion
that I put to Bucharin （see page 81）； namely； that a suppressed movement
in England would be worse for Russia than our traditional method of
compromise。 He agreed at once； but said； 〃That is quite true； but you
cannot stop a revolution 。 。 。 although Ramsay MacDonald will try to at the
last minute。 Strikes and Soviets。 If these two habits once get hold；
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RUSSIA IN 1919
nothing will keep the workmen from them。 And Soviets； once started；
must sooner or later come to supreme power。〃 Then； 〃But certainly it
would be much more difficult in England。 Your big clerk and shop…
keeping class would oppose it； until the workmen broke them。 Russia
was indeed the only country in which the revolution could start。 And we
are not yet through our troubles with the peasantry。〃
I suggested that one reason why it had been possible in Russia was
that they had had room to retreat。
〃Yes；〃 he said。 〃The distances saved us。 The Germans were
frightened of them； at the time when they could indeed have eaten us up；
and won peace； which the Allies would have given them in gratitude for
our destruction。 A revolution in England would have nowhere whither to
retire。〃
Of the Soviets he said； 〃In the beginning I thought they were and
would remain a purely Russian form； but it is now quite clear that under
various names they must be the instruments of revolution everywhere。〃
He expressed the opinion that in England they would not allow me to
tell the truth about Russia； and gave as an example the way in which
Colonel Robins had been kept silent in America。 He asked about Robins；
〃Had he really been as friendly to the Soviet Government as he made
out？〃 I said； 〃Yes； if only as a sportsman admiring its pluck and courage in
difficulties。〃 I quoted Robins' saying； 〃I can't go against a baby I have sat
up with for six months。 But if there were a Bolshevik movement in
America I'd be out with my rifle to fight it every time。〃 〃Now that；〃 said
Lenin； 〃is an honest man and more far…seeing than most。 I always liked
that man。〃 He shook with laughter at the image of the baby； and said；
〃That baby had several million other folk sitting up with it too。〃
He said he had read in an English socialist paper a comparison of his
own theories with those of an American； Daniel De Leon。 He had then
borrowed some of De Leon's pamphlets from Reinstein （who belongs to
the party which De Leon founded in America）； read them for the first time；
and was amazed to see how far and how early De Leon had pursued the
same train of thought as the Russians。 His theory that representation
should be by industries； not by areas； was already the germ of the Soviet
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system。 He remembered seeing De Leon at an International Conference。
De Leon made no impression at all； a grey old man； quite unable to speak
to such an audience： but evidently a much bigger man than he looked；
since his pamphlets were written before the experience of the Russian
Revolution of 1905。 Some days afterwards I noticed that Lenin had
introduced a few phrases of De Leon； as if to do honour to his memory；
into the draft for the new programme of the Communist party。
Talking of the lies that are told about Russia； he said it was
interesting to notice that they were mostly perversions of truth and not
pure inventions； and gave as an example the recent story that he had
recanted。 〃Do you know the origin of that？〃 he said。 〃I was wishing a
happy New Year to a friend over the telephone； and said 'And may we
commit fewer stupidities this year than last！' Some one overheard it and
told some one else。 A newspaper announced Lenin says we are
committing stupidities' and so the story started。〃
More than ever； Lenin struck me as a happy man。 Walking home
from the Kremlin； I tried to think of any other man of his calibre who had
had a similar joyous temperament。 I could think of none。 This little；
bald…headed； wrinkled man； who tilts his chair this way and that； laughing
over one thing or another； ready any minute to give serious advice to any
who interrupt him to ask for it； advice so well reasoned that it is to his
followers far more compelling than any command； every one of his
wrinkles is a wrinkle of laughter； not of worry。 I think the reason must be
that he is the first great leader who utterly discounts the value of his own
personality。 He is quite without personal ambition。 More than that； he
believes； as a Marxist； in the movement of the masses which； with or
without him； would still move。 His whole faith is in the elemental forces
that move people； his faith in himself is merely his belief that be justly
estimates the direction of those forces。 He does not believe that any man
could make or stop the revolution which he thinks inevitable。 If the
Russian revolution fails； according to him； it fails only temporarily； and
because of forces beyond any man's control。 He is consequently free
with a freedom no other great man has ever had。 It is not so much what
he says that inspires confidence in him。 It is this sensible freedom； this
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obvious detachment。 With his philosophy he cannot for a moment
believe that one man's mistake might ruin all。 He is； for himself at any
rate； the exponent； not the cause； of the events that will be for ever linked
with his name。
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THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF
PUBLIC ECONOMY
February 20th。
To…day was an unlucky day。 I felt tired； ill and hungry； and had
arranged to talk with both Rykov； the President of the Supreme Council of
People's Economy； and Krestinsky； the Commissar of Finance； at such
awkward times that I got no tea and could get nothing to eat until after
four o'clock。 Two such talks on an empty stomach （for the day before I
had had only a plate of soup and a little scrap of fish） were a little too
much for me； and I fear I did not gather as much information as I should
have collected under better conditions。
I had a jolly drive； early in the morning； through the Chinese Town；
and out by the gate in the old wall； up Myasnitzkaya Street； and round to
the right to a building that used to be the Grand Hotel of Siberia； a
loathsome place where I once stayed。 Here in the old days provincial
merchants put up； who did not mind high prices and a superfluity of bugs。
It has now been turned into a hive of office work； and is the headquarters
of the Supreme Council
