eryxias(厄里克夏斯)-第4章
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ERYXIAS： They would not。
SOCRATES： They would no longer be regarded as wealth； because
they are useless； whereas that would be wealth which enabled us to obtain
what was useful to us？
ERYXIAS： O Socrates； you will never be able to persuade me that
gold and silver and similar things are not wealth。 But I am very strongly
of opinion that things which are useless to us are not wealth； and that the
money which is useful for this purpose is of the greatest use； not that these
things are not useful towards life； if by them we can procure wealth。
SOCRATES： And how would you answer another question？ There
are persons； are there not； who teach music and grammar and other arts for
pay； and thus procure those things of which they stand in need？
ERYXIAS： There are。
SOCRATES： And these men by the arts which they profess； and in
exchange for them； obtain the necessities of life just as we do by means of
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gold and silver？
ERYXIAS： True。
SOCRATES： Then if they procure by this means what they want for
the purposes of life； that art will be useful towards life？ For do we not
say that silver is useful because it enables us to supply our bodily needs？
ERYXIAS： We do。
SOCRATES： Then if these arts are reckoned among things useful；
the arts are wealth for the same reason as gold and silver are； for； clearly；
the possession of them gives wealth。 Yet a little while ago we found it
difficult to accept the argument which proved that the wisest are the
wealthiest。 But now there seems no escape from this conclusion。
Suppose that we are asked； 'Is a horse useful to everybody？' will not our
reply be； 'No； but only to those who know how to use a horse？'
ERYXIAS： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And so； too； physic is not useful to every one； but only
to him who knows how to use it？
ERYXIAS： True。
SOCRATES： And the same is the case with everything else？
ERYXIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： Then gold and silver and all the other elements which
are supposed to make up wealth are only useful to the person who knows
how to use them？
ERYXIAS： Exactly。
SOCRATES： And were we not saying before that it was the business
of a good man and a gentleman to know where and how anything should
be used？
ERYXIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： The good and gentle； therefore will alone have profit
from these things； supposing at least that they know how to use them。
But if so； to them only will they seem to be wealth。 It appears； however；
that where a person is ignorant of riding； and has horses which are useless
to him； if some one teaches him that art； he makes him also richer； for
what was before useless has now become useful to him； and in giving him
knowledge he has also conferred riches upon him。
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ERYXIAS： That is the case。
SOCRATES： Yet I dare be sworn that Critias will not be moved a
whit by the argument。
CRITIAS： No； by heaven； I should be a madman if I were。 But
why do you not finish the argument which proves that gold and silver and
other things which seem to be wealth are not real wealth？ For I have
been exceedingly delighted to hear the discourses which you have just
been holding。
SOCRATES： My argument； Critias （I said）； appears to have given
you the same kind of pleasure which you might have derived from some
rhapsode's recitation of Homer； for you do not believe a word of what has
been said。 But come now； give me an answer to this question。 Are not
certain things useful to the builder when he is building a house？
CRITIAS： They are。
SOCRATES： And would you say that those things are useful which
are employed in house building；stones and bricks and beams and the like；
and also the instruments with which the builder built the house； the beams
and stones which they provided； and again the instruments by which these
were obtained？
CRITIAS： It seems to me that they are all useful for building。
SOCRATES： And is it not true of every art； that not only the
materials but the instruments by which we procure them and without
which the work could not go on； are useful for that art？
CRITIAS： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And further； the instruments by which the instruments
are procured； and so on； going back from stage to stage ad infinitum；are
not all these； in your opinion； necessary in order to carry out the work？
CRITIAS： We may fairly suppose such to be the case。
SOCRATES： And if a man has food and drink and clothes and the
other things which are useful to the body； would he need gold or silver or
any other means by which he could procure that which he now has？
CRITIAS： I do not think so。
SOCRATES： Then you consider that a man never wants any of these
things for the use of the body？
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CRITIAS： Certainly not。
SOCRATES： And if they appear useless to this end； ought they not
always to appear useless？ For we have already laid down the principle
that things cannot be at one time useful and at another time not； in the
same process。
CRITIAS： But in that respect your argument and mine are the same。
For you maintain if they are useful to a certain end； they can never become
useless； whereas I say that in order to accomplish some results bad things
are needed； and good for others。
SOCRATES： But can a bad thing be used to carry out a good
purpose？
CRITIAS： I should say not。
SOCRATES： And we call those actions good which a man does for
the sake of virtue？
CRITIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： But can a man learn any kind of knowledge which is
imparted by word of mouth if he is wholly deprived of the sense of
hearing？
CRITIAS： Certainly not； I think。
SOCRATES： And will not hearing be useful for virtue； if virtue is
taught by hearing and we use the sense of hearing in giving instruction？
CRITIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： And since medicine frees the sick man from his disease；
that art too may sometimes appear useful in the acquisition of virtue； e。g。
when hearing is procured by the aid of medicine。
CRITIAS： Very likely。
SOCRATES： But if； again； we obtain by wealth the aid of medicine；
shall we not regard wealth as useful for virtue？
CRITIAS： True。
SOCRATES： And also the instruments by which wealth is procured？
CRITIAS： Certainly。
SOCRATES： Then you think that a man may gain wealth by bad and
disgraceful means； and； having obtained the aid of medicine which enables
him to acquire the power of hearing； may use that very faculty for the
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acquisition of virtue？
CRITIAS： Yes； I do。
SOCRATES： But can that which is evil be useful for virtue？
CRITIAS： No。
SOCRATES： It is not therefore necessary that the means by which
we obtain what is useful for a certain object should always be useful for
the same object： for it seems that bad actions may sometimes serve good
purposes？ The matter will be still plainer if we look at it in this way：If
things are useful towards the several ends for which they exist； which ends
would not come into existence without them； how would you regard them？
Can ignorance； for instance； be useful for knowledge； or disease for health；
or vice for virtue？
CRITIAS： Never。
SOCRATES： And yet we have already agreedhave we not？that
there can be no knowledge where there has not previously been ignorance；
nor health where there has not been disease； nor virtue where there has not
been vice？
CRITIAS： I think that we have。
SOCRATES： But then it would seem that the antecedents without
which a thing cannot exist are not necessarily useful to it。 Otherwise
ignorance would appear useful for knowledge； disease for health； and vice
for virtue。
Critias still showed great reluctance to accept any argument which
went to prove that all these things were useless。 I saw that it was as
difficult to persuade him as （according to the proverb） it is to boil a stone；
so I said： Let us bid 'good…bye' to the discussion； since we cannot agree
whether these things are useful and a part of wealth or not。 But what
shall we say to another question： Which is the happier and better man；
he who requires the greatest quantity of necessaries for body and diet； or
he who requires only the fewest and least？ The answer will perhaps
become more obvious if we suppose some one； comparing the man
himself at different times； to consider whether his condition is better when
he is sick or when he is well？
CRITIAS： That is not a question which needs much consideration。
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SOCRATES： Probably； I said； every one can understand that health
is a better condition than disease。 But when have we the greatest and the
most various needs； when we are sick or when we are well？
CRITIAS： When we are sick。
SOCRATES： And when we are in the worst state we have the
greatest and most especial need and desire of bodily pleasures？
CRITIAS： True。
SOCRATES： And seeing that a man is best off when he is least in
need of such things； does not the same reasoning apply to the c
