phaedo-及11嫗
梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ○ 賜 ★ 辛酔堀貧和鍬匈��梓囚徒貧議 Enter 囚辛指欺云慕朕村匈��梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ● 辛指欺云匈競何��
!!!!隆堋響頼��紗秘慕禰厮宴和肝写偬堋響��
source of beauty�察�I leave all that�察�which is only confusing to me�察�and
simply and singly�察�and perhaps foolishly�察�hold and am assured in my
own mind that nothing makes a thing beautiful but the presence and
participation of beauty in whatever way or manner obtained�察�for as
to the manner I am uncertain�察�but I stoutly contend that by beauty all
beautiful things become beautiful。 That appears to me to be the only
safe answer that I can give�察�either to myself or to any other�察�and
to that I cling�察�in the persuasion that I shall never be overthrown��
and that I may safely answer to myself or any other that by beauty
beautiful things become beautiful。 Do you not agree to that��
Yes�察�I agree。
And that by greatness only great things become great and greater
greater�察�and by smallness the less becomes less。
True。
Then if a person remarks that A is taller by a head than B�察�and B
less by a head than A�察�you would refuse to admit this�察�and would
stoutly contend that what you mean is only that the greater is greater
by�察�and by reason of�察�greatness�察�and the less is less only by�察�or by
reason of�察�smallness�察�and thus you would avoid the danger of saying
that the greater is greater and the less by the measure of the head��
which is the same in both�察�and would also avoid the monstrous
absurdity of supposing that the greater man is greater by reason of
the head�察�which is small。 Would you not be afraid of that��
Indeed�察�I should�察�said Cebes�察�laughing。
In like manner you would be afraid to say that ten exceeded eight
by�察�and by reason of�察�two�察�but would say by�察�and by reason of�察�number��
or that two cubits exceed one cubit not by a half�察�but by
magnitude�拭�that is what you would say�察�for there is the same danger in
both cases。
Very true�察�he said。
Again�察�would you not be cautious of affirming that the addition of
one to one�察�or the division of one�察�is the cause of two�拭�And you would
loudly asseverate that you know of no way in which anything comes into
existence except by participation in its own proper essence�察�and
consequently�察�as far as you know�察�the only cause of two is the
participation in duality�察�that is the way to make two�察�and the
participation in one is the way to make one。 You would say�此�I will let
alone puzzles of division and addition´wiser heads than mine may
answer them�察�inexperienced as I am�察�and ready to start�察�as the proverb
says�察�at my own shadow�察�I cannot afford to give up the sure ground
of a principle。 And if anyone assails you there�察�you would not mind
him�察�or answer him until you had seen whether the consequences which
follow agree with one another or not�察�and when you are further
required to give an explanation of this principle�察�you would go on
to assume a higher principle�察�and the best of the higher ones�察�until
you found a resting´place�察�but you would not refuse the principle
and the consequences in your reasoning like the Eristics´at least if
you wanted to discover real existence。 Not that this confusion
signifies to them who never care or think about the matter at all�察�for
they have the wit to be well pleased with themselves�察�however great
may be the turmoil of their ideas。 But you�察�if you are a
philosopher�察�will�察�I believe�察�do as I say。
What you say is most true�察�said Simmias and Cebes�察�both speaking
at once。
Ech。 Yes�察�Phaedo�察�and I don't wonder at their assenting。 Anyone
who has the least sense will acknowledge the wonderful clear。 of
Socrates' reasoning。
Phaed。 Certainly�察�Echecrates�察�and that was the feeling of the
whole company at the time。
Ech。 Yes�察�and equally of ourselves�察�who were not of the company�察�and
are now listening to your recital。 But what followed��
Phaedo。 After all this was admitted�察�and they had agreed about the
existence of ideas and the participation in them of the other things
which derive their names from them�察�Socrates�察�if I remember rightly��
said�此�
This is your way of speaking�察�and yet when you say that Simmias is
greater than Socrates and less than Phaedo�察�do you not predicate of
Simmias both greatness and smallness��
Yes�察�I do。
But still you allow that Simmias does not really exceed Socrates�察�as
the words may seem to imply�察�because he is Simmias�察�but by reason of
the size which he has�察�just as Simmias does not exceed Socrates
because he is Simmias�察�any more than because Socrates is Socrates�察�but
because he has smallness when compared with the greatness of Simmias��
True。
And if Phaedo exceeds him in size�察�that is not because Phaedo is
Phaedo�察�but because Phaedo has greatness relatively to Simmias�察�who is
comparatively smaller��
That is true。
And therefore Simmias is said to be great�察�and is also said to be
small�察�because he is in a mean between them�察�exceeding the smallness
of the one by his greatness�察�and allowing the greatness of the other
to exceed his smallness。 He added�察�laughing�察�I am speaking like a
book�察�but I believe that what I am now saying is true。
Simmias assented to this。
The reason why I say this is that I want you to agree with me in
thinking�察�not only that absolute greatness will never be great and
also small�察�but that greatness in us or in the concrete will never
admit the small or admit of being exceeded�此�instead of this�察�one of
two things will happen´either the greater will fly or retire before
the opposite�察�which is the less�察�or at the advance of the less will
cease to exist�察�but will not�察�if allowing or admitting smallness�察�be
changed by that�察�even as I�察�having received and admitted smallness
when compared with Simmias�察�remain just as I was�察�and am the same
small person。 And as the idea of greatness cannot condescend ever to
be or become small�察�in like manner the smallness in us cannot be or
become great�察�nor can any other opposite which remains the same ever
be or become its own opposite�察�but either passes away or perishes in
the change。
That�察�replied Cebes�察�is quite my notion。
One of the company�察�though I do not exactly remember which of
them�察�on hearing this�察�said�此�By Heaven�察�is not this the direct
contrary of what was admitted before´that out of the greater came
the less and out of the less the greater�察�and that opposites are
simply generated from opposites�察�whereas now this seems to be
utterly denied。
Socrates inclined his head to the speaker and listened。 I like
your courage�察�he said�察�in reminding us of this。 But you do not observe
that there is a difference in the two cases。 For then we were speaking
of opposites in the concrete�察�and now of the essential opposite which��
as is affirmed�察�neither in us nor in nature can ever be at variance
with itself�此�then�察�my friend�察�we were speaking of things in which
opposites are inherent and which are called after them�察�but now
about the opposites which are inherent in them and which give their
name to them�察�these essential opposites will never�察�as we maintain��
admit of generation into or out of one another。 At the same time��
turning to Cebes�察�he said�此�Were you at all disconcerted�察�Cebes�察�at our
friend's objection��
That was not my feeling�察�said Cebes�察�and yet I cannot deny that I am
apt to be disconcerted。
Then we are agreed after all�察�said Socrates�察�that the opposite
will never in any case be opposed to itself��
To that we are quite agreed�察�he replied。
Yet once more let me ask you to consider the question from another
point of view�察�and see whether you agree with me�此�There is a thing
which you term heat�察�and another thing which you term cold��
Certainly。
But are they the same as fire and snow��
Most assuredly not。
Heat is not the same as fire�察�nor is cold the same as snow��
No。
And yet you will surely admit that when snow�察�as before said�察�is
under the influence of heat�察�they will not remain snow and heat�察�but
at the advance of the heat the snow will either retire or perish��
Very true�察�he replied。
And the fire too at the advance of the cold will either retire or
perish�察�and when the fire is under the influence of the cold�察�they
will not remain�察�as before�察�fire and cold。
That is true�察�he said。
And in some cases the name of the idea is not confined to the
idea�察�but anything else which�察�not being the idea�察�exists only in
the form of the idea�察�may also lay claim to it。 I will try to make
this clearer by an example�此�The odd number is always called by the
name of odd��
Very true。
But is this the only thing which is called odd�拭�Are there not
other things which have their own name�察�and yet are called odd��
because�察�although not the same as oddness�察�they are never without
oddness�拭�that is what I mean to ask´whether numbers such as the number
three are not of the class of odd。 And there are many other
examples�此�would you not say�察�for example�察�that three may be called
by its proper name�察�and also be called odd�察�which is not the same with
three�拭�and this may be said not only of three but also of five�察�and
every alternate number´each of them without being oddness is odd��
and in the same way two and four�察�and the whole series of alternate
numbers�察�has every number even�察�without being evenness。 Do you admit
that��
Yes�察�he said�察�how can I deny that��
Then now mark the point at which I am aiming�此�not only do
essential opposites exclude one another�察�but also concrete things��
which�察�although not in themselves opposed�察�contain opposites�察�these�察�I
say�察�also reject the idea which is opposed to that which is
contained in them�察�and at the advance of that they either perish or
withdraw。 There is the number three for example�察�will not that
endure annihilation or anything sooner than be converted into an
even number�察�remaining three��
Very true�察�said Cebes。
And yet�察�he said�察�the number two is certainly not opposed to the
number three��
It is not。
Then not only do opposite ideas repel the advance of one another��
but also there are other things which repel the approach of opposites。
That is quite true�察�he said。
Suppose�察�he said�察�that we endeavor�察�if possible�察�to determine what
these are。
By all means。
Are they not�察�Cebes�察�such as compel the things of which they have
possession�察�not only to take their own form�察�but also the form of some
opposite��
What do you mean��
I mean�察�as I was just now saying�察�and have no need to repeat to you��
that those things which are possessed by the number three must not
only be three in number�察�but must also be odd。
Quite true。
And on this oddness�察�of which the number three has the impress��
the opposite idea will never intrude��
No。
And this