meno-第5章

按键盘上方向键 ← 或 → 可快速上下翻页，按键盘上的 Enter 键可回到本书目录页，按键盘上方向键 ↑ 可回到本页顶部！
————未阅读完？加入书签已便下次继续阅读！




courage　wanting　prudence；　which　is　only　a　sort　of　confidence？　When　a



man　has　no　sense　he　is　harmed　by　courage；　but　when　he　has　sense　he



is　profited？



　　Men。　True。



　　Soc。　And　the　same　may　be　said　of　temperance　and　quickness　of



apprehension；　whatever　things　are　learned　or　done　with　sense　are



profitable；　but　when　done　without　sense　they　are　hurtful？



　　Men。　Very　true。



　　Soc。　And　in　general；　all　that　the　attempts　or　endures；　when　under



the　guidance　of　wisdom；　ends　in　happiness；　but　when　she　is　under　the



guidance　of　folly；　in　the　opposite？



　　Men。　That　appears　to　be　true。



　　Soc。　If　then　virtue　is　a　quality　of　the　soul；　and　is　admitted　to



be　profitable；　it　must　be　wisdom　or　prudence；　since　none　of　the　things



of　the　soul　are　either　profitable　or　hurtful　in　themselves；　but　they



are　all　made　profitable　or　hurtful　by　the　addition　of　wisdom　or　of



folly；　and　therefore　and　therefore　if　virtue　is　profitable；　virtue



must　be　a　sort　of　wisdom　or　prudence？



　　Men。　I　quite　agree。



　　Soc。　And　the　other　goods；　such　as　wealth　and　the　like；　of　which　we



were　just　now　saying　that　they　are　sometimes　good　and　sometimes



evil；　do　not　they　also　become　profitable　or　hurtful；　accordingly　as



the　soul　guides　and　uses　them　rightly　or　wrongly；　just　as　the　things



of　the　soul　herself　are　benefited　when　under　the　guidance　of　wisdom



and　harmed　by　folly？



　　Men。　True。



　　Soc。　And　the　wise　soul　guides　them　rightly；　and　the　foolish　soul



wrongly。



　　Men。　Yes。



　　Soc。　And　is　not　this　universally　true　of　human　nature？　All　other



things　hang　upon　the　soul；　and　the　things　of　the　soul　herself　hang



upon　wisdom；　if　they　are　to　be　good；　and　so　wisdom　is　inferred　to　be



that　which　profits…and　virtue；　as　we　say；　is　profitable？



　　Men。　Certainly。



　　Soc。　And　thus　we　arrive　at　the　conclusion　that　virtue　is　either



wholly　or　partly　wisdom？



　　Men。　I　think　that　what　you　are　saying；　Socrates；　is　very　true。



　　Soc。　But　if　this　is　true；　then　the　good　are　not　by　nature　good？



　　Men。　I　think　not。



　　Soc。　If　they　had　been；　there　would　assuredly　have　been　discerners　of



characters　among　us　who　would　have　known　our　future　great　men；　and



on　their　showing　we　should　have　adopted　them；　and　when　we　had　got



them；　we　should　have　kept　them　in　the　citadel　out　of　the　way　of



harm；　and　set　a　stamp　upon　them　far　rather　than　upon　a　piece　of



gold；　in　order　that　no　one　might　tamper　with　them；　and　when　they



grew　up　they　would　have　been　useful　to　the　state？



　　Men。　Yes；　Socrates；　that　would　have　been　the　right　way。



　　Soc。　But　if　the　good　are　not　by　nature　good；　are　they　made　good　by



instruction？



　　Men。　There　appears　to　be　no　other　alternative；　Socrates。　On　the



supposition　that　virtue　is　knowledge；　there　can　be　no　doubt　that



virtue　is　taught。



　　Soc。　Yes；　indeed；　but　what　if　the　supposition　is　erroneous？



　　Men。　I　certainly　thought　just　now　that　we　were　right。



　　Soc。　Yes；　Meno；　but　a　principle　which　has　any　soundness　should　stand



firm　not　only　just　now；　but　always。



　　Men。　Well；　and　why　are　you　so　slow　of　heart　to　believe　that



knowledge　is　virtue？



　　Soc。　I　will　try　and　tell　you　why；　Meno。　I　do　not　retract　the



assertion　that　if　virtue　is　knowledge　it　may　be　taught；　but　I　fear



that　I　have　some　reason　in　doubting　whether　virtue　is　knowledge：　for



consider　now。　and　say　whether　virtue；　and　not　only　virtue　but　anything



that　is　taught；　must　not　have　teachers　and　disciples？



　　Men。　Surely。



　　Soc。　And　conversely；　may　not　the　art　of　which　neither　teachers　nor



disciples　exist　be　assumed　to　be　incapable　of　being　taught？



　　Men。　True；　but　do　you　think　that　there　are　no　teachers　of　virtue？



　　Soc。　I　have　certainly　often　enquired　whether　there　were　any；　and



taken　great　pains　to　find　them；　and　have　never　succeeded；　and　many



have　assisted　me　in　the　search；　and　they　were　the　persons　whom　I



thought　the　most　likely　to　know。　Here　at　the　moment　when　he　is



wanted　we　fortunately　have　sitting　by　us　Anytus；　the　very　person　of



whom　we　should　make　enquiry；　to　him　then　let　us　repair。　In　the　first



Place；　he　is　the　son　of　a　wealthy　and　wise　father；　Anthemion；　who



acquired　his　wealth；　not　by　accident　or　gift；　like　Ismenias　the　Theban



（who　has　recently　made　himself　as　rich　as　Polycrates）；　but　by　his



own　skill　and　industry；　and　who　is　a　well…conditioned；　modest　man；　not



insolent；　or　over…bearing；　or　annoying；　moreover；　this　son　of　his



has　received　a　good　education；　as　the　Athenian　people　certainly　appear



to　think；　for　they　choose　him　to　fill　the　highest　offices。　And　these



are　the　sort　of　men　from　whom　you　are　likely　to　learn　whether　there



are　any　teachers　of　virtue；　and　who　they　are。　Please；　Anytus；　to



help　me　and　your　friend　Meno　in　answering　our　question；　Who　are　the



teachers？　Consider　the　matter　thus：　If　we　wanted　Meno　to　be　a　good



physician；　to　whom　should　we　send　him？　Should　we　not　send　him　to　the



physicians？



　　Any。　Certainly。



　　Soc。　Or　if　we　wanted　him　to　be　a　good　cobbler；　should　we　not　send



him　to　the　cobblers？



　　Any。　Yes。



　　Soc。　And　so　forth？



　　Any。　Yes。



　　Soc。　Let　me　trouble　you　with　one　more　question。　When　we　say　that



we　should　be　right　in　sending　him　to　the　physicians　if　we　wanted　him



to　be　a　physician；　do　we　mean　that　we　should　be　right　in　sending　him



to　those　who　profess　the　art；　rather　than　to　those　who　do　not；　and



to　those　who　demand　payment　for　teaching　the　art；　and　profess　to　teach



it　to　any　one　who　will　come　and　learn？　And　if　these　were　our



reasons；　should　we　not　be　right　in　sending　him？



　　Any。　Yes。



　　Soc。　And　might　not　the　same　be　said　of　flute…playing；　and　of　the



other　arts？　Would　a　man　who　wanted　to　make　another　a　flute…player



refuse　to　send　him　to　those　who　profess　to　teach　the　art　for　money；



and　be　plaguing　other　persons　to　give　him　instruction；　who　are　not



professed　teachers　and　who　never　had　a　single　disciple　in　that



branch　of　knowledge　which　he　wishes　him　to　acquire…would　not　such



conduct　be　the　height　of　folly？



　　Any。　Yes；　by　Zeus；　and　of　ignorance　too。



　　Soc。　Very　good。　And　now　you　are　in　a　position　to　advise　with　me



about　my　friend　Meno。　He　has　been　telling　me；　Anytus；　that　he



desires　to　attain　that　kind　of　wisdom　and…virtue　by　which　men　order



the　state　or　the　house；　and　honour　their　parents；　and　know　when　to



receive　and　when　to　send　away　citizens　and　strangers；　as　a　good　man



should。　Now；　to　whom　should　he　go　in　order　that　he　may　learn　this



virtue？　Does　not　the　previous　argument　imply　clearly　that　we　should



send　him　to　those　who　profess　and　avouch　that　they　are　the　common



teachers　of　all　Hellas；　and　are　ready　to　impart　instruction　to　any　one



who　likes；　at　a　fixed　price？



　　Any。　Whom　do　you　mean；　Socrates？



　　Soc。　You　surely　know；　do　you　not；　Anytus；　that　these　are　the



people　whom　mankind　call　Sophists？



　　Any。　By　Heracles；　Socrates；　forbear！　I　only　hope　that　no　friend　or



kinsman　or　acquaintance　of　mine；　whether　citizen　or　stranger；　will



ever　be　so　mad　as　to　allow　himself　to　be　corrupted　by　them；　for　they



are　a　manifest　pest　and　corrupting　influences　to　those　who　have　to



do　with　them。



　　Soc。　What；　Anytus？　Of　all　the　people　who　profess　that　they　know



how　to　do　men　good；　do　you　mean　to　say　that　these　are　the　only　ones



who　not　only　do　them　no　good；　but　positively　corrupt　those　who　are



entrusted　to　them；　and　in　return　for　this　disservice　have　the　face



to　demand　money？　Indeed；　I　cannot　believe　you；　for　I　know　of　a



single　man；　Protagoras；　who　made　more　out　of　his　craft　than　the



illustrious　Pheidias；　who　created　such　noble　works；　or　any　ten　other



statuaries。　How　could　that　A　mender　of　old　shoes；　or　patcher　up　of



clothes；　who　made　the　shoes　or　clothes　worse　than　he　received　them；



could　not　have　remained　thirty　days　undetected；　and　would　very　soon



have　starved；　whereas　during　more　than　forty　years；　Protagoras　was



corrupting　all　Hellas；　and　sending　his　disciples　from　him　worse　than



he　received　them；　and　he　was　never　found　out。　For；　if　I　am　not



mistaken；…he　was　about　seventy　years　old　at　his　death；　forty　of



which　were　spent　in　the　practice　of　his　profession；　and　during　all



that　time　he　had　a　good　reputation；　which　to　this　day　he　retains：



and　not　only　Protagoras；　but　many　others　are　well　spoken　of；　some



who　lived　before　him；　and　others　who　are　still　living。　Now；　when　you



say　that　they　deceived　and　corrupted　the　youth；　are　they　to　be



supposed　to　have　corrupted　them　consciously　or　unconsciously？　Can



those　who　were　deemed　by　many　to　be　the　wisest　men　of　Hellas　have　been



out　of　their　minds？



　　Any。　Out　of　their　minds！　No；　Socrates；　the　young　men　who　gave



their　money　to　them；　were　out　of　their　minds；　and　their　relations



and　guardians　who　entrusted　their　youth　to　the　care　of　these　men



were　still　more　out　of　their　minds；　and　most　of　all；　the　cities　who



allowed　them　to　come　in；　and　did　not　drive　them　out；　citizen　and



stranger　alike。



　　Soc。　Has　any　of　the　Sophists　wronged　you；　Anytus？　What　makes　you



so　angry　with　them？



　　Any。　No；　indeed；　neither　I　nor　any　of　my　belongings　has　ever　had；



nor　would　I　suffer　them　to　have；　anything　to　do　with　them。



　　Soc。　Then　you　are　entirely　unacquainted　with　them？



　　Any。　And　I　have　no　wish　to　be　acquainted。



　　Soc。　Then；　my　dear　friend；　how　can　you　know　whether　a　thing　is



good　or　bad　of　which　you　are　wholly　ignorant？



　　Any。　Quite　well；　I　am　sure　that　I　know　what　manner　of　men　these　are；



whether　I　am　acquainted　with　them　or　not。



　　Soc。　You　must　be　a　diviner；　Anytus；　for　I　really　cannot　make　out；



judging　from　your　own　words；　how；　if　you　are　not　acquainted　with　them；



you　know　about　them。　But　I　am　not　enquiring　of　you　who　are　the



teachers　who　will　corrupt　Meno　（let　them　be；　if　you　please；　the



Sophists）；　I　only　ask　you　to　tell　him　who　there　is　in　this　great



city　who　will　teach　him　how　to　become　eminent　in　the　virtues　which　I



was　just；　now　describing。　He　is　the　friend　of　your　family；　and　you



will　oblige　him。



　　Any。　Why　do　you　not　tell　him　yourself？



　　Soc。　I　have　told　him　whom　I　supposed　to　be　the　teachers　of　these



things；　but　I　learn　from　you　that　I　am　utterly　at　fault；　and　I　dare



say　that　you　are　right。　And　now　I　wish　that　you；　on　your　part；　would



tell　me　to　whom　among　the　Athenians　he　should　go。　Whom　would　you　name？



　Any。　Why　single　out　individuals？　Any　Athenian　gentleman；　taken　at



random；　if　he　will　mind　him；　will　do　far　more；　good　to　him　than　the



Sophists。



　　Soc。　And　did　those　gentlemen　grow　of　themselves；　and　without



having　been　taught　by　any　one；　were　they　nevertheless　able　to　teach



others　that　which　they　had　never　learned　themselves？



　　Any。　I　imagine　that　they　learned　of　the　previous　generation　of



gentlemen。　Have　there　not　been　many　good　men　in　this